Frage zu 25. Passphrase

[root_s2yse8vt]

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Ich habe viel im Internet gesucht, aber ich kann nicht finden, wonach ich suche:
Wenn ich mich für die Wiederherstellungsfunktion entscheide
Kann meine 25. Passphrase wiederhergestellt werden?
Wenn nicht, warum nicht? Ich bitte um eine fachkundige Antwort und nicht um eine einfache “unsinnige” Antwort.
Auch wie bleibt sie mit meinen 24 Seeds verbunden, wenn die 25. sowieso nicht gespeichert ist?
Woher weiß die neue Wallet, wenn ich den 25. einlege, dass es sich um meine alte Wallet handelt, die auf einem anderen Gerät erstellt wurde, und nicht nur um eine neue leere Wallet?
Ich frage, weil es heißt “ist nirgendwo gespeichert”, also verstehe ich nicht, wie es die Verbindung herstellt oder wie es das macht.
Da die 24 auf dem Gerät gespeichert sind, wie ist es möglich, dass der 25. nicht gespeichert ist?
Wie kann sich mein 24er Seed daran erinnern, dass er einen 25er in der Gruppe hat 😅.
Weil es irgendwo sein muss, um die Verbindung zwischen 24 Seed und 25. herzustellen.
Wäre dankbar, wenn mir jemand diese Dinge erklären könnte 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[ElGuano]

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The passphrase is part of the BIP-39 standard that the seed words themselves are based on. What a seed does is take the 24 words and convert it to a formula or algorithm that generates private keys in order. If you have the same 24 words, it always creates those keys, in that specific order. The 25th word just adds another element to the formula, and any wallet adhering to the standard will know how to calculate the 25th word.

[mooremo]

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>How does the new wallet knows, when I put the 25th in it, that is my old one created on another device, and not just a new empty one ?

It doesn’t know and it doesn’t need to. That set of words will always create those wallets.

[-allomorph-]

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Try not to think of it as the 25th word, but instead, a separate thing than the 24 word seed. You have a seed made up of 24 words, and then you can add a passphrase on top of that, to generate a whole new wallet. The mathematical method of how this works was from BIP 39. Basically, the community came to an agreement on a method implementing it. As it is a known, standard way of doing it, the manufacturers of the wallets follow the same methods of calculation that are listed. Is it possible for the hardware wallet to save the passphrase? Yes, but they say they don’t, so trust is involved. If the company is open source, you can trust others that have reviewed their code to verify that they are not saving it. If you are good at coding and they are open source, you can read the code and verify yourself that they are not saving it.

[r_a_d_]

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No. Read the whitepaper. Recover basically saves your 24 word seed. The passphrase is used together with the seed phrase to generate the wallet private keys per BIP32, 39 and 44.

[Tryllionaire]

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Last question is Not related only to ledger, but in general for all the devices having the 25th passphrase option.

[joannew99]

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I think Ledger is lying (again) when they say 25th word isn’t stored anywhere. If you use “Attach as PIN” option, where the PIN helps recover the pass phrase, how is it that the pass phrase isn’t stored anywhere?

I use temporary pass phrase for this very reason

[Jim-Helpert]

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Hey there, The passphrase feature is available on all Ledger devices and allows you to create an additional password tied to your Secret Recovery Phrase. For each Secret Recovery Phrase, a different passphrase leads to a new set of private keys and accounts. The Ledger Recover service, if used, does not backup your passphrase. More on how to set-up a passphrase here: [https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005214529-How-to-set-up-a-passphrase-?docs=true](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005214529-How-to-set-up-a-passphrase-?docs=true)

[chuoni]

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Your keys and addresses are mathematically generated from your recovery phrase. If you add a passphrase, a whole new set of addresses is generated from the recovery phrase plus the passphrase. That’s how a recovery phrase and a passphrase (that ideally shouldn’t be a word for security purposes) are “connected”.

So if you recover your 24 word recovery phrase and add the passphrase yourself, the generated addresses point to the same wallet that you’ve used before.

[loupiote2]

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> If I chose to opt in for the recovery feature Can my 25th passphrase be recovered to ?

No. Ledger confirmed that their Recover service does not backup the bip39 passphrase.

In addition, the bip39 passphrase is not stored in the ledger. What is stored is the 512-bit bip39 seed calculated by hashing the bip39 entropy (i.e. 24-word mnemonic) with the bip39 seed phrase.

> How does the new wallet knows, when I put the 25th in it, that is my old one created on another device, and not just a new empty one ?

The device cannot know where or how your recovery seed phrase and your passphrase were generated.

> As the 24 are stored on the device, how is possible the 25th is not ?

As I said, the ledger stored the resulting 512-bit bip39 seed that it calculates from the 24 words AND the passphrase. That 512-bit bip39 seed is used for calculating all the private keys of all your accounts. Note also that the 512-bit bip39 seed is not saved by the Recover service.

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