Ich habe über 200 BTC. Wie kann ich am besten einen Test machen und sie dann meinen nächsten Angehörigen hinterlassen?
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Hallo Leute.
Ich habe über 200 BTC (siehe Beitragshistorie zur Überprüfung) vor vielen Jahren gekauft und über 3 Trezor-Einheiten in Off-Site-Standorten getrennt.
Alle 3 Trezors wurden von der offiziellen Website gekauft. Ich habe die Seed-Phrase auf dem kleinen Papier, das jedem Trezor beilag, aufgeschrieben, und auch diese sind an drei verschiedenen Orten in feuerfesten Tresoren aufbewahrt, weit weg von den Trezors. Ich habe keine Passphrase. Ich habe das Saatgut nie woanders aufbewahrt.
Ich werde die Seed-Phrasen der Papiergeldbörsen auf 3 Steelwallets übertragen.
Ich möchte auch einen Test der Seed Phrases durchführen, da ich die BTC seit ein paar Jahren nicht mehr überprüft habe, bevor ich alles wieder in die Tresore lege. Ich bin ein wenig besorgt über all die Horrorgeschichten, die ich über geleerte Trezor-Wallets/Keylogger-Software oder andere Malware gelesen habe.
**A). Wie kann ich den Test am besten durchführen?**
Ich denke, die sicherste Option könnte sein:
1. Kaufen Sie einen billigen, brandneuen, versiegelten Laptop ohne eingebaute Webcam direkt von einem Hersteller.
2. Kauf eines brandneuen Trezor Model One direkt von der Website des Herstellers
3. Verbinden Sie sich mit meinem Heim-WiFi und installieren Sie die Software direkt von [Trezor.io](https://Trezor.io) und nichts anderes.
4. Testen Sie die erste Seed-Phrase von der neu gestanzten Steelwallet. Löschen Sie den Test-Trezor auf die Werkseinstellungen zurück.
5. Testen Sie die zweite Seed-Phrase aus dem neu gestanzten Steelwallet. Wischen Sie den Test-Trezor auf die Werkseinstellungen zurück.
6. Testen Sie die dritte Seed-Phrase aus der neu gestanzten Steelwallet. Wischen Sie den Test-Trezor auf die Werkseinstellungen zurück.
7. Legen Sie die 3 alten Trezors und die 3 neuen Steelwallets an ihren ursprünglichen Platz zurück. Verbrennen Sie die 3 freien Papiere mit den Seed-Phrasen.
8. Benutze Darins Boot and Nuke Programm auf der Festplatte des Laptops. Entferne die Festplatte und zerstöre sie physisch (ich habe Zugang zu einer Verbrennungsanlage.). Verkaufe den Laptop ohne Festplatte (ich besitze bereits ein anständiges MacBook und niemand in meiner Familie braucht einen billigen Laptop).
9. Das Testgerät von Trezor physikalisch zerstören.​
Ich bin mir bewusst, dass die oben genannten Maßnahmen übertrieben erscheinen, aber der Aufwand ist groß genug, um die Kosten zu rechtfertigen. **Kann jemand das obige Szenario für mich testen und mich über mögliche Fehlerpunkte informieren oder mir sagen, was er anders machen würde?** Kann mir jemand sagen, welche Laptop-Marke er in meinem Szenario kaufen würde?
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**B). Wie hinterlasse ich diese Dinge meiner Frau im Falle meines Todes oder meiner Geschäftsunfähigkeit?**
Meine Frau ist technisch nicht inkompetent, aber sie ist auch keine Programmiererin. Ich würde ihre Computerkenntnisse mit 3 von 10 bewerten (mich selbst würde ich mit 6 von 10 bewerten). Ich denke darüber nach, mich mit ihr an den Küchentisch zu setzen und sie zu zwingen, die Punkte 3 bis 6 gemeinsam mit mir zu machen, damit sie weiß, was zu tun ist, wenn ich nicht mehr da bin. Sie weiß auch, wo die Trezors und Steelwallets aufbewahrt werden, falls ich nicht in der Nähe bin, aber es wäre vielleicht gut, wenn sie wüsste, wie alles funktioniert. Vor vielen Jahren habe ich ihr die vierstelligen Pins für jeden Trezor gezeigt (eine einprägsame Nummer, die nur ihr und mir bekannt ist und die wir über die drei Geräte hinweg teilen), aber ich habe keine Passphrase hinzugefügt, da ich die Dinge für sie nicht zu kompliziert machen wollte. Kürzlich fragte ich sie, ob sie die BTC zurückerhalten würde, falls ich nicht mehr da wäre, und sie schaute ein wenig skeptisch.
Jedes Feedback wird dankbar angenommen. Ich danke Ihnen.
**\*\*An alle Spammer, die meinen Posteingang verstopfen und vorgeben, vom “Trezor Helpdesk 9898” zu sein, oder an Leute, die mich per PM um weitere Unterstützung bitten: Sie brauchen sich nicht zu bemühen. Ich bin klug genug, um nicht auf irgendwelche Betrügereien hereinzufallen, alles wird als Spam blockiert, geht weiter zum nächsten leichtgläubigen Fisch.
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Your procedure seems relatively safe, but I would do it differently. You are basically doing it in a way that you pass everything through a common single point of failure (laptop, single new trezor, physically all at the same location at the same time). What happens if something goes wrong on that day? You lose everything. I think you need to split the operation for the 3 units you have. I personally would use a different approach for each. Here are some additional things to consider
* wipe the os of the new laptop first. Some come with spyware preinstalled. Install good antivirus and compete scan before.
* destroy the ram as well as the HDD
* Never ever type your seed on a keyboard (use the painful trezor method)
* wipe the trezor first
* delete this post, you put your family at risk
* cash out a few BTC to put in the bank (I know it sucks, but that’s safer/easier to manage for your wife if anything goes wrong) -
>Any feedback gratefully accepted. Thank you.
Let’s first deal with B.
1. With over 200 BTC at today’s value, you can afford $100 to teach your wife through real-world experience. Make it something you and her spend 1-2 hours doing every Sunday until she has it down pat. No matter how much “theory” you walk her through without the “practical” she will panic or not know the exact steps should the time come for her to utilize them.
2. When doing no.1, please play with small incremental sends and not entire large amounts. I’ll be writing about this on my subReddit shortly. I see too many people often lose large amounts of money because they didn’t do a test send first.Now for A.
1. Your plan sounds good but there is no need to take out the HD and destroy it. I’ve sold laptops before that held crypto. I’ve never been compromised.
2. I would buy an MBP, brand new from an Apple store before I bought a Windows laptop. Apple products are not immune, but they’re a lot safer out of the box.Again, everything else here sounds good. Best of luck!
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My suggestion would be to not use trezor, but a software wallet on air gapped computer.
For example boot a live version of some distribution from flash drive, synchronize the entire Blockchain and install some wallet that can use it (Electrum? Not sure). Then disconnect all network from the computer. Check your seeds. Destroy the flash drive.
Even if there was a malicious software somewhere, it couldn’t send your seeds out. The best it could do is store them on the flash drive.
Also unsolicited advise: but I would sell some of the BTC and invest in other things to minimize risk. We all hope for Bitcoin to succeed, but I wouldn’t bet all my eggs on it.
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For each of the 3 sets of 24 seed words, you could split the seed into 3 sets which contain 2/3rds of the seed words. Set 1 has 1–16, set 2 has 9-24, and set 3 has 1-8 and 17-24. This way you need the words from 2 locations to complete the seed. If one location is compromised you don’t lose the whole wallet. If one location is destroyed you don’t lose the whole wallet. I would also suggest using a password or 25th word.
Finally you can write these instructions along with a seed word and leave them with an attorney included in a will that they prepare. I haven’t done this part yet, so I’m open to hearing any feedback on this suggestion.
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I personally wrote the instruction down on a piece of paper in details and told my wife that when things go wrong with me, she must refer to that paper where only her and I know. I sent her several videos so she get some ideas, and told her that in case she still does not understand it, she can refer that to one of our most trusted relatives who is very tech savvy.
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Teach your a wife and go through it a few times. Maybe regularly to keep things fresh. She can buy and sell $100 of BTC on her own device and use it regularly to just gain familiarity. She doesn’t need to practice recovering your real wallets, just her own.
I’d add a passphrase for a hidden wallet and transfer the funds into it. It’s very easy on the Model T, it gives good peace of mind in case someone gains access to your seeds. Things like safety deposit boxes can be opened by courts, private vaults have shady employees, home invasion etc.
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If you’re afraid of keyloggers, you should use advanced recovery on Trezor One, or buy a Trezor T. With advanced recovery you click empty buttons in a 3×3 matrix looking on the Trezor to know which button represents which option (similar to how PIN works). With the T, you do everything on the device itself.
Also try the recovery process with a random throw-away seed first to get familiar with the process.
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Can you clarify what exactly you intend to test? If the only intention here is to verify that the seed phrase still derives to a public key that owns the bitcoin you could easily just turn one on and get the public key without connecting to a networked device and follow last steps mentioned below. There’s no reason to unnecessarily purchase a new one unless you actually require a 4th one for your opsec in which case it may be a good idea to also get a ledger to diversify your risk in the event software fails from trezor.
Also, I wouldn’t recommend downloading the installer via the actual device you want to test with. Instead I’d suggest downloading the .exe/.dmg to a USB device that you trust and keeping it on the USB and running it from the USB. At this point you could keep the device completely airgapped. Depending on your level of paranoia you could even pull the WiFi card from the device ahead of time or get one that has a switch to disable it so that you can be certain no network connection is made.
Then once you’ve confirmed the seed phrase properly derives to a public key write it down on a piece of paper. Then on a separate device validate the account balance via the public block explorer. This way the seed phrase never gets connected to a networked device.
On the other hand, if the goal here is to teach your wife how to utilize the trezor this makes a bit more sense. In that case, I’d still utilize the USB method but also place a copy of the usb drive with each trezor. This way your wife can easily go out and purchase a new laptop and plug in each device to make a transaction. One thing to note though is she not only needs to be aware of how to use the Trezor but also needs to know how she can convert to fiat via a sale. Often times these practical instructions our overlooked which could leave her susceptible to a social engineering attack when she asks for help. I’d suggest making sure it’s clear how to do this as well by writing a basic text file that’s also kept on the USB with instructions. This way you can be certain she can run through it in the event she ever needed to.
Also, while I assume you trust your wife with this information in the event your relationship went south you may want to have a backup plan in place financially. This may mean it would make more sense for you to utilize a multisig solution with a fiduciary who requires proof of a death certificate to utilize their key share with just your wife. Ultimately it’s up to you to decide if this is a necessary step, but it’s something you may want to consider within your opsec plan.
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Seems like you could save a lot of hassle by doing all the testing on a ColdCard hooked up to a 9v battery.
In regards to your wife, that’s a point of concern, maybe an idea would be to just get her used to transacting in bitcoin first and foremost, stick twenty quids worth of BTC into a bluewallet or something and get her buying gift cards for Starbucks or something.
Just so she can get familiar with it, then, wipe her wallet on her phone at random and get her to recover it etc, those connections can form in her mind over time regarding the basics, then graduate her up to interacting with HWWs etc.
In a way, you’d hope that she wouldn’t be able to access the funds in her “learner” wallet again, so she can understand the gravity of ‘no key no coins’ etc and won’t make that mistake when it actually matters.
Once she is up to speed, test her knowledge, frequently. I cannot stress that enough.
Apart from that, I would use a Trezor T over the Trezor One as you don’t input your seed via the keyboard on the T, it’s done on device.
Good luck anon.
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Even if you show her the steps 3-6 today, how well do you think she’ll remember it in the future? Say, a year or five or twenty
With that brand spanking new laptop you want to buy, also buy a cheapo laser printer, and do up exact instructions for her.
If you expect she’ll need to sell, sit with her and help her create and verify an account somewhere. Make sure she has that information.
And every few months when you’re checking on things, sit in the passenger seat and let her drive so the process of interacting with your wallet and Trevor become more familiar. Heck, even have her do a few small transfers to her new account, sell, she withdraw the proceeds to her bank so she’s actually experienced the process start to finish.
You’re coming up with great technical solutions but the weak spot in all this is insuring that your wife actually knows what to do with the gadgets, papers and cards you’re leaving her
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