Saatgut-Worträtsel
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da ich kein haus besitze und ständig unterwegs bin, ist es für mich nicht sehr angenehm, wenn ich meine Saatgutwörter auf Metall mit mir herumtrage. also habe ich mir eine idee überlegt, wie ich sie sicher online speichern kann.
ich schreibe 200 wörter in einer excel-tabelle in einer bestimmten form. und ich verstecke meine 24 wörter darin und merke mir die diagrammform, die die 24 wörter mit zwei wörtern verbindet, die aus diesem diagramm versteckt sind, aber immer noch leicht zu merken sind, wo. dann schreibe ich diese 200 wörter der Reihe nach in eine einfache notiz.
Ist das etwas, das gehackt werden kann? -
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> so i thought about an idea how to securely store it online.
That doesn’t exist
> is this something that can be hacked?
Yes, what you describe is “obscure” not “secure”. Any language model AI would be able to crack it after a few hours of training.
> i write down 200 words in an excel sheet in a certain shape. and i hide my 24 words within that and i remember the diagram shape that connects the 24 words with two worda being hidden out of that diagram but still easy to remember where.
If you are going to be dependent on your memory, just memorize the seed mnemonic. “mnemonic” basically means “to memorize”.
All that said. The best method is just a straight unscrambled codebook. Pen and paper bound. Kept “some place safe”. But if you REALLY can’t do that, then there are methods to split a seed that are cryptographically secure. Take one half and store it in a dozen different safety deposit boxes (east coast, west coast, gulf coast, europe, etc). Take the other half and stamp it on your metal plates your fear will be discovered. Do NOT bring the two halves together.
BTW I do NOT recommend using passphrases as a way to facilitate this!!!
There are two secure ways to split a seed:
1. Shamir Shared Secret (think Ian has a tool for this, google it)
2. Scramble Cipher (outlined below)For a scramble cipher, you take 24 note cards, and put the seed word on one side, and the number (1-24) of the seed word on the other. Some prefer to replace 1-24 with ‘a-x’. Now take your 24 cards and shuffle them. Now you have your split. On the metal sheet, put your 24 words in their scrambled order, and in your safety deposit box store the ordering string.
seed: pact humble crystal meat quote lemon silver another clay brief skirt holiday gold angry boss dish east pole window civil rice oil surge wine
shuffle: lemon pact east boss rice another surge silver meat angry humble quote civil wine gold oil holiday crystal pole brief window dish skirt clay
order: faqouhwgdnbetxmvlcrjspkiMay be a bit much to figure out, and you may like Shamir’s better, but both are cryptographically sound.
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I disagree with the above and don’t think it would be unsafe if 1. All the words are in the available wordlist. 2. Your pattern isn’t an octagon or other “common” shape in the middle of the page. It’s probably not perfect but I doubt some super hacker is going to find it and figure it out. I’d also highlight 24 random words on it to focus them on those as a decoy.
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Hey, while your idea of hiding your 24-word recovery phrase within a larger list of words and remembering a specific pattern is creative, it still carries risks if stored online. Any digital storage, including an Excel sheet or a simple note stored online, is susceptible to hacking. If your account is compromised, an attacker could potentially gain access to your list of words and, with enough time and resources, might be able to decipher your pattern.
The safest way to store your recovery phrase is offline. If you’re constantly on the road, consider using a secure physical method that is portable and resistant to physical damage, such as engraving the phrase into metal plates like Cryptosteel Capsule or Billfodl.
Remember, your recovery phrase is the only way to restore your crypto assets if you lose access to your wallet. Therefore, it’s crucial to keep it secure and private. For more information on seed phrases and how to securely store them, you can refer to this article: [https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005514233-How-to-keep-your-24-word-recovery-phrase-and-PIN-code-safe](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005514233-How-to-keep-your-24-word-recovery-phrase-and-PIN-code-safe)
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If you really must, keep half on you and half online in some secret form (e.g. steganography). This way if either are compromised, you are still fine. Still keep your 24 words safe somewhere you can always return to. Maybe also in a non obvious form. Just be careful so you don’t lose the words. Keep multiple ledgers on the same seed as well, so you have less risk of loss in general.
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I’m in the same position as you as I spend most of the year away from my home, and what I did was memorise my seed.
I’m amazed more people don’t bother memorising their seed phrase. It’s surprisingly easy to do, just takes a bit of effort (I say that as someone who hasn’t bothered to memorise my own phone number. So if I can do it, pretty much anyone can)
Just don’t recite the words out loud, lol.
Now obviously memory can let you down, so make sure you still keep your physical copy somewhere secure (mine stays in my home country residence, but never comes with me on my travels).
**This is just an extra backup**.
And it’s come in very useful for me when my ledger once reset itself while I was in a foreign country
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If you are going to put your Seed Words anywhere on line (not recommended), then you definitely need a Passphrase! Take a look at “What is a Passphrase, and how do you set one up” from Ledger on YouTube.
Caution – never forget or lose your Passphrase, if you do then the funds in your hidden wallet are gone forever, even your original 24 word Seed phrase cannot recover them.
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